tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4058766287077382431.post7054211700101747194..comments2024-03-23T04:01:39.348-04:00Comments on Understanding Society: Who invented the totalitarian state?Dan Littlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15953897221283103880noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4058766287077382431.post-77277290349069796552009-12-17T18:25:29.445-05:002009-12-17T18:25:29.445-05:00I think it is arguable, at least, the Napoleon I c...I think it is arguable, at least, the Napoleon I created a kind of proto-totalitarian state, or at least a new kind of authoritarian state, with an extensive and well-organized beaurocracy and secret service, with impacts on civil society, not to mention the huge military service he organized.ciceronianushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10134836668562326081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4058766287077382431.post-46311464400451408052009-12-17T02:19:20.770-05:002009-12-17T02:19:20.770-05:0010 seconds of Google and two minutes of reading Wi...10 seconds of Google and two minutes of reading Wiki on "Palmer Raids" will show bow history gets written by the winners. J Edgar Hoover established his own version of fascism in 1919 and was only partially restrained over the next 60 years or so. We had a parallel government going on all those years challenged only by the establishment of the OSS/CIA which set up a tripatite system in the 40s. The FBI has been brought under control of Constitutional government in the last couple of decades but the CIA is still dangeroulsly independent and there is a push to put the military into a similar position "military policy controlled by battlefield commanders like Petraeus/McChrystal". We are not out of the line of fire here.Bruce Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13222670342780912788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4058766287077382431.post-60155683441041036142009-12-16T22:36:47.993-05:002009-12-16T22:36:47.993-05:00I find it puzzling that liberal England gets off t...I find it puzzling that liberal England gets off the hook for a good hundred years of the worst famine in 19th century Europe (Ireland) that killed at least a million people and a series of famines in India that killed upwards of 11 million people between 1874-1910, clearly aggravated by British policy and treated by the British administration, due to its ideology, with no real attempt to cope with it - and yet I am suppose to label these accidents. Then I am supposed to label Stalin's Ukraine famine a terror famine. Why? Because - like the British - he was ideologically committed to preserving the circumstances causing the famine, and aggravated it by collectivizing - just as the British aggravated the Irish famine by using soldiers to guard imports of grain to England whilst the Irish peasantry starved. <br /><br />I know - the trail of corpses left behind by the good classical liberal rule was just one of those things, while Stalin was the devil. But please, explain again why totalitarianism was so very bad for Ukrainian peasants, while capitalism was so very good for Irish ones. I really like the equivocation. <br /><br />Oh, there's a wonderful series of pictures of the labor camps set up for the Indians in Mike Davis's book, Victorian holocaust.Roger Gathmannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11257400843748041639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4058766287077382431.post-83408730043601918542009-12-16T14:25:31.406-05:002009-12-16T14:25:31.406-05:00Isn't there a difference between fascism and t...Isn't there a difference between fascism and totalitarianism? The former harnesses "street level" populism while the latter seeks to keep its subjects passive.Wardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13386132124297691307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4058766287077382431.post-8983778176139468292009-12-16T13:51:08.669-05:002009-12-16T13:51:08.669-05:00Your examples are all of relatively large polities...Your examples are all of relatively large polities. What about earlier, smaller states, such as Geneva under Calvin, Haiti under Henri Christophe, Paraguay under Francia? I would not myself use the term "totalitarian" to describe them, but they did exhibit substantial penetration of civil society by the state.Alannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4058766287077382431.post-19330277325396118452009-12-16T08:01:23.377-05:002009-12-16T08:01:23.377-05:00To know more about totalitarian modern state visit...To know more about totalitarian modern state visit Italy now and read:<br />Cognitive dissonance: the case of Italy at<br />http://mgiannini.blogspot.com/2009/12/cognitive-dissonance-case-of-italy.html<br />I believe that totalitarianism find somehow origin and justification in people cognitive dissonance. Of course you need also a certain degree of banditism in power, stupid and helpless people.M.G. https://www.blogger.com/profile/14140876295753661499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4058766287077382431.post-4082797431110804782009-12-16T07:33:01.619-05:002009-12-16T07:33:01.619-05:00What about, say, Sparta? Can it be compared to 20t...What about, say, Sparta? Can it be compared to 20th century totalitarian states?Nick Rowehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04982579343160429422noreply@blogger.com